Tianeptine (Stablon), Valdoxan and Servier Pharmaceuticals

FINALLY other people are starting to ask the questions I was asking Psychiatrists and Doctors two-three years ago!!!! If you’re ever involved in psychiatric treatment and/or care for you or loved ones PLEASE get asking. Not this necessarily LOL, but make sure you research, pay attention to doctors (and their empty and sometimes blatantly lying justifications), and ask lots about what they try to do… this specialty needs SO much work, it makes me sick just how inefficient, incompetent and downright dangerous standard practice is in medical mental health care.

The question is why it’s hard to get an antidepressant called Tianeptine (Stablon) = it is so promising, for both mental illness (and LOTS of them traditionally ‘untreatable’) as well as physical illnesses, such as Parkinson’s disease and asthma. This drug is the OPPOSITE of antidepressants most of us know. SSRIs. This is an SSRE. It makes you clean up the free serotonin, not keep it available. And it works. Turns out serotonin is less about what happens with mood, and more about how detached you are emotionally… by detaching and dissociating from your feelings you can work through issues (like a robot ffs this is NOT best practice) and then once they are behind you, you can come off the SSRI and (hopefully) get your feelings back again.

Servier who makes Tianeptine, is where I was 100% going to basically BEG to hire me, where I wanted to work, had I decided to go ahead with the (neuro)psychopharmacology degree. (I was a bit burnt out at that point and needed a break from the complexity of the brain for a while – doing my head in… boom *tish…

They are a French pharmaceutical company (there was an office in AU). They have a very long history of creating actually useful, effective drugs for brains, none of the shit out there now – drugs that do work with complex depressions and ‘untreatable’ mental illnesses (ptsd, some DIDers have had improvement), insomnia-heavy depressions, anhedonia… the list goes on).

Tianeptine isn’t available here, and it’s a damn shame for the concept of treating patients with the BEST treatment, instead of the BEST MARKETED treatment. From newest to my last informant (lolol) – Prozac was first, then SSRIs in general, then Effexor, then SNRIs in general, then ‘activating antidepressants’ being those that wake you up, supposedly, then the ‘new’ Effexor, called Pristiq (when the patent runs out, others are allowed to make generics – when this happens companies change just enough of the original to get a NEW patent – exclusive sale of product I think for 5 years in the US – and this is why ‘new versions’ appear. After Pristiq, it is/was Lexapro (if you ever had cipramil in the 90s, this is the new-gen/new patent version)… when the patent runs out in the US a new drug will be most marketed and it’ll filter this way, too… OH yes don’t forget, along with Anti-psychotics as a first line in anything – either for the ‘everybody has bipolar bandwagon’, OR using similar combos – SSRIs and anti-psychotics which are now being given out to treat NORMAL intensity/presentation depression sufferers. As in, it’s not especially severe… get your numb zombie lollies, kids… that is what they do. Because they are *supposed* to stop you behaving psychotically (aka dangerous to yourself and others and out of touch with reality)… so they sedate you, make you heavy, remove personality, and very often, put on a LOT of weight – in some cases they can cause diabetes (Zyprexa I’m looking at you.)


DO NOT give that for depression, woah… that is NOT a psychotic break, or disorder! It is such overkill, probably serotonin syndrome-ing people, which leads them directly to the ‘everybody has bipolar’ bandwagon. Ahhh the circle of BAD PSYCHIATRIC life. Elton should sing a song.

Back to Tianeptine. One really worthwhile nerd fact is that it’s 99% bioavailable – almost all the drug is actually useable by your body. No paying for inactive, unused, wee’d out active ingredients, you only need in the pill the amount you need in your body. That is a good thing. For comparison’s sake:

Prozac is 72% (fluoxetine)

Effexor is JUST 42% (venlafaxine)

Pristiq 80% (desvenlafaxine – see similarity – molecular mirrors and things)

Cipramil 80% (citalopram)

Lexapro 80% (escitalopram – again see how it’s not actually very different at all)

Oooh how could I forget the good run that old Zoloft got, lol. I’ll add it here

Zoloft an abysmal 44% (sertraline)

So it’s remarkably good compared to the major recommendations in use in recent years.

It is also effective in a bunch of NON mental health conditions (Parkinson’s is one, Asthma is another) and it has miles less side effects than any other anti-depressants.

Re-reading about it is making me re-excited and also rah-ey again at its limited position. This has been around since the 19-bloody-70s people!!!!!!!!!!!

Common treatment of dissociative symptoms – across the whole scale – involves an antidepressant, and potentially anti-psychotic at times, if given anything.

Those with dissociation disorders being given SSRIs is every doctor doing it very much going, ‘here take a tablet guaranteed to make it WORSE.’

Another one mentioned there also by Servier is called Valdoxan (agomelatine). This one is another unique/different method of making people happier. Luckily, in Aus we do have Valdoxan BUT you’ll find it hard to get your doctor to choose it over Lexapro (or whatever the latest incentive-paying, most visibly marketed SSRI is at the moment).  The US doesn’t have it though – and how many people even knew about this one, it doesn’t matter that Australia has access, people aren’t aware of it… So anyway, it’s an anti-depressant that actually works on melatonin, so you take it at night, it makes you sleepy, then you take it in the morning, it wakes you up – and it doesn’t touch the serotonin, dopamine or norepinephrine bits enough to impact them much, if at all. It also shows promise for being at least a part treatment for ADHD (and could offer another non-stimulant treatment), its showing promising results in OCD, and is particularly useful for atypical or ‘mild/flat’ type depression. Which can be a nightmare to try treating – since often atypical/melancholy depression feels largely detached, underneath flat line (so a flat line, running at just below neutral mood) and sort of muted anything. SSRIs only exacerbate the feeling, and the patient just hates it all even more.

Oh – and I’m no anti-pharma company hippie or something. I’m VERY much PRO-drug, pro-mental health treatment, etc. But I’m also pro-ACCURACY and pro-BEST CHOICE.

It isn’t ‘evil pharma’ (it’s the for-profit, mega-industry that genuine medical health is in the USA – far bigger than drug makers, it’s every level of it, as healthcare there is a money-making industry, business, it’s not about social service and welfare… So the companies have to compete to get insurers to cover their drug, and not the competitor… etc. anyway, ultimately, what you’re prescribed when you tell the average GP you’re depressed, is NOT what is best for you – it’s what gives the GP more, or they have been conditioned into thinking of first (heavy advertising, creating familiarity and so on). It’s really rare to find a GP, Psychiatrist etc. who will even be open to options outside of their current ‘go to’ choice. They don’t like mental health patients making suggestions (or family of).

Do it, though if you’re ever there. Stand up for yourself or your people and get the right treatment not the quick/easy one. Know your shit (find out whatever you can), and look at what might actually help YOU the individual, not the advertising company that most insidiously ingrained ads

I’m really quite used to people being dismissive enough of the level of work I’ve done in this stuff, both personally and professionally people think I’m playing pseudo-psych or something, that I don’t know what I say I do, that I’m not as educated on this as I am, or that I didn’t really do the amount of work that I did. Having pulled it apart, it was calculated that I could have written a doctoral thesis with the level of research I’d done, notes I had and knowledge I’d gained. I don’t claim it’s some special magic talent here, I worked on this topic almost every moment I was up, for 3 years. Not including the formal subjects I’d done earlier, the ‘just because I’m interested’ learning I’d done earlier, the self-corrective/identifying myself warts and all and dealing with it/learning how to be who I am now, just because I couldn’t deal with the disappointment I had in some of my choices and behaviours in my first 22 years. This is year 11 that I’ve been actively interested. I covered 10 years work in the three years before the last one.

Anyway, sitting here pleading and justifying AGAIN is a waste. I say I know what I’m talking about because I WANT THE BEST for people who mean something to me, who I care about. Which is apparently SO rare that almost no one, in the history of ever, has been able to accept that is the TRUTH about me, and assumed, or is ‘sure’ that I have ulterior motives, selfish incentives, and my own interests dominantly at heart.

Sorry, you’re all really mean because you’re wrong. I like how it feels when YOU have a ‘win’, close people. I like how it feels when something finally goes your way. I like how it feels when you are happier than you were last time we spoke. I like how it feels when you feel like you’re in control of your own life and you’re as capable as I think you are. I like how it feels when I see people I care about being their true, deep selves – and not living life as a lie, or too scared to be themselves.

And when any of those things is somehow related to something I did/said/gave/knew – the core of it is that I feel validated when it happens, I feel useful. I feel worthwhile. I feel like I DO have something to offer ‘the world’ after all. I feel like I deserve my place in it.

So I put forever into learning SO many things, and joining SO many dots, so that I have something to give you, which means I feel like I’m a valid person here, and don’t need to feel like I’m underage at the pub and a breath away from being found out,  just for existing.

So when you say I don’t know this and I’m blowing hot air and basically being a know-it-all (acting like I know it better than everyone, but do not know much at all), when you act as though you cannot believe for a SECOND that I could be anything even distantly close smart enough, committed enough, quick enough, caring enough (to make sure it’s right and you understand options), doing it because I have something to give (and am NOT A BLOODY CONTROL FREAK or trying to manipulate people somehow – oh PS, good and capable manipulators are almost always MISSED by people like you guys, so the suspicion on me is almost sure proof I’m not!), it’s like someone like me couldn’t POSSIBLY know ‘real’ answers, let alone actually join new dots and come up with ‘new’ answers and ideas… gasp… that make sense, that could even be correct…(I’m a nobody, as if my new ideas are actually new, probably not even mine… and most certainly totally incorrect).

Yes, I have faced all of the above as response to offering people I care about (many and multiple) basically the insides of my brain on a platter for their use and benefit. I can count in single figures the people who have TRUSTED me, my word and my efforts (and my intentions being to help ONLY) from the outset because they think I’m decent and whatever else, who haven’t done the bad stuff, and who seem to actually feel appreciative that I bothered to help them (as if I wouldn’t, but anyway).

Those people, wow, one hand, easy… as far as I know all of which are doing OK so far, some are better, some have answers, some are just getting REALLY BRAVE at looking at themselves. It’s amazing what a bit of NON-judgmental, attentive and genuine actual support can do to a persons’ confidence and even their ability… if I offer support it’s not to be a bitch to you, it’s to encourage you to fight for your OWN sense of contentment and success, whatever that is.

I’m someone you can take at face value, my word is my honour (yeah I’m invoking that cliché). Honestly, the thought of going back on my word, not living up to commitments, failing people and letting other people down, or not showing a base level of courtesy and respect to others because I am like it – even though so many others haven’t respected or don’t respect me in any such way. Not about the person I show respect to, though. It’s about me. It’s about how I would feel about MYSELF if I was disrespectful. Because I learnt how to be responsible for myself in a fairly intense way compared to the average blamer/haven’t done anything/don’t know what I mean by ‘working on myself’ people. I am 100% in control of my own self and my life. You can all have yours, I do not want to control anyone else. I want everyone to know how to see themselves honestly, control themselves so they don’t need to feel regret/remorse/embarrassment/guilt – as much as humanly possible (and without excusing the need for you to feel it, wow that’s the opposite so much!). I can tell you what I did that went against my beliefs, ethics, morals, and self-expectations because it’ll be whatever I feel sick about. Whether you know what it was or not, I am a really harsh ‘parent’ to myself, I guess. Disappointing myself is my primary motivation for myself. The idea of hurting another person to me is as intense as the idea of actually physically causing harm. Like big injury stuff. If you ran over a lady because you were getting your phone from the back or something… the moment you bump and realise what happened… THAT that feeling is how I feel about hurting people. As in, calling someone names – hurting ego. Saying untrue, impulsive, angry things – hurting feelings (and myself big time). No different. In fact I care more about hurting the psyche than anything, maybe because mine was such a damaged, trodden on mess of mush when I first started to fix myself. I still remember the first time I sat there and thought of every bad/naughty/embarrassing or shameful thing I’d ever done. If caught or not.

That was hard, I remember where I was, and I remember how much light was in the room, how my hair felt and how long it was, I can go back there in a heartbeat and while it’s harder to bring up the depth of the emotional experience I had, if I wait long enough and think hard enough, it will come (which is good, to keep myself reminded, I guess BUT I do not go as deep into it as it was originally – I don’t need to keep emotionally punishing myself by reliving the negative feelings, just make sure I don’t forget how it feels to look at your darkest choices). I have done a LOT of atonement work on myself since then. I have tried to do something to acknowledge it, show that I take responsibility for it, and hope I find enough to make the debt I feel toward people I’ve hurt lessen a little.

But after confronting it all that completely (and all at once) – it’s really NOT hard to see, be aware of AND keep a leash on my negative traits J I’m not caught up trying to hide them or pretend I can’t see them and I actually spend time lost in my head, LOOKING FOR FLAWS ON PURPOSE… and it’s not scary at all now.

I also have this fear of and complete need to do everything I can, to avoid being ignorant! OH I hate ignorance, not only is it uneducated but it is LAZY – it’s being too lazy to find information, and having an opinion based on NOTHING. People who take a stand before looking at a shred of an argument, whether right or wrong, are standing there being 100% ignorant in front of me, and I find it makes me embarrassed for them (not myself, ignorant person next to me does not represent me), and I can’t help but hear counter-arguments to things that they say. I have NO opinions that I’m sure enough of to offer up as ‘how it is’ without having worked to find out! I would self-exile if I found out that I was thought of as looking (… hmm more so than looking it, actually BEING) ignorant about something I acted like I knew. Couldn’t handle the shame!

That whole, Talking out my arse, speaking shit – LOOKING LIKE AN IDIOT (applies to anything, the idiot thing, hate looking like that and if you are involved in displaying me like that, my sensitivity goes immediately to humiliation. And that’s hard to forget. Usually people who make me look that way don’t tend to be worried about what they indicate, infer or imply about who and what I am as a person, they’re too busy denying that they did anything that wasn’t totally OK, totally cool and nothing I say is real – even if I was watching the event unfold on a larger scale while they had blinders on and only saw one thing, the thing making them look bad) – actually not see them for not looking and assuming I’m generally ok so negatives don’t matter – OH THEY DO even if you only have one negative trait, it’s not cancelled out by anything, it’s as real as anything and it needs attention as much too).
UGH, I hate how almost no one gets the actual best treatment for their condition in mental health/psychiatric treatment, when it could be sooooo much better, less difficult/painful, faster, oh just a whole other board game, if people in charge jumped a
Rant over. But, yeah. YAY someone else is asking, and no it’s not as easy as answered (nootropics websites).

PS You can (if you try hard enough) get Tianeptine in some Asian countries. I think it may not be called Stablon there, but is called Coaxial. OR it’s the other way around.